VFTB 148: Christians Are Wild Beasts

Julian the Apostate
Julian the Apostate – or the Philosopher, depending on your point of view

SO THOUGHT the Roman emperor we know as Julian the Apostate. The historian Ammianus Marcellinus recorded his observation that “no wild beasts are so hostile to men as Christians are to one another.”

Sadly, Julian was more right than we’d like to admit.  Nothing can set a group of believers to fighting faster than the question, “Pre-, mid-, or post-tribulation?”

Joining us to discuss how to disagree without being disagreeable are the co-hosts of the new weekly video discussion program Quest 4 Truth, Rob Skiba and Doug Hamp.  We kick around thoughts on how to keep iron sharpening iron instead of cutting off the heads of anyone with a different point of view.

Sharon and Derek Gilbert will be at the sold-out Pikes Peak Prophecy Summit July 26-28, 2013 with Gary Stearman, Tom Horn, Chuck Missler, L.A. Marzulli, Joseph Farah, Dr. Stan Monteith, Cris Putnam, and many more. Get information here.

Please join the discussion at the PID Radio Cafe, visit the VFTB Facebook page and check out the great Christian podcasters at the Revelations Radio Network.

By request: Download a smaller, lower-fidelity version of the mp3 of this show by clicking here.



  1. In a multitude of counselors there’s safety. Let all be established by the testimony of two and three.

    Re: KJV … best version for memorization and written for the ear.

    Personal opinion: It’s funny to watch “original text” fans put more effort into learning greek, hebrew, aramaic, and latin than old english.

    Better approach… Whatever the Holy Ghost repeats is important — the more repeated the more important.

    Speak the truth in love. Without love it means nothing.

    Good show! More reconciliation, thanks!

    No compromise with gay bibles, divorce-tolerant, worldly multi-faith, polytheism please.

    1. Author

      Again, while I can’t speak for Doug and Rob, I think all of us would wholeheartedly agree with your last point. Altering the Bible to appeal to the world is wrong. The hubris of trying to improve on God is breathtaking — but it’s happening all around us.

  2. Ok guys here are my questions. The topic of the king james bible was touched upon and the talk justt kind of left me hanging…… I am gonna try to make this short and sweet, I came from a mormonism background and doctorine is key (i have been out of that church for some time now and am a born againer). My question to you is if the king james bible is not inerrant word of God then what bible is and since it is not then where is the hand of God to protect the validity at.? i have done so much research using kjv and the strongs exhaustive concordance that this is very important . i do know that there is a difference in authorized kjv and regular kjv…. i thought that the church of antioch is how the kjv was made law or proper script, annointed by God if you will.
    Hope to here some feedback or tell me where i can go to do this discussion. Though i would like to hear your take on this.

    1. Author

      There are some translation errors in the KJV, but I don’t think any of us would suggest that minor errors (like “turtles” for “turtledoves”) compromise Christian doctrine in any way. The KJV is an excellent translation, and our discussion of the KJV-only debate was not in any way a criticism of the King James Version.

      Our point was that the debate about whether other, more recent translations are also excellent can sometimes turn nasty, and it shouldn’t.

  3. Translations are just that “translations”. It is important to find a Bible translation based on
    the original Hebrew,Aramaic,and Koine Greek to understand the Lord’s message. Plus a good
    reliable study commentary helps too.
    In fact Toaism is mentioned in the Book of Ruth based on the King James version of the
    Bible. Ruth said to Naomi ” Where doesth go I will go !” . ( Bad joke).

  4. Derek (and everyone else who thinks the turtle/turtledove issue is a mistranslation),

    I’ll state the issue up front: it’s not that the language scholars on the KJV committees “got it wrong” by using “turtle(s)” instead of “turtledove(s)” (for reasons mentioned below) but rather why they didn’t always translate the underlying Hebrew word as “turtledove(s)” (and even that, I think, is easily explainable, as also mentioned below). Yes, that’s right, sometimes they did translate the word as “turtledove(s)”. In fact, the MAJORITY of the times it was translated this way.

    Strong’s H8449, the Hebrew word tor, appears 14 times in the text. 9 times this word was translated “turtledove” or “turtledoves”, and 5 times it was translated as “turtle” or “turtles”, showing clearly the translators knew exactly what the word meant.
    Furthermore, they did not simply have a lapse of judgement for the other 5 of those times. As I mentioned above, I think the explanation is much simpler: literary variety. The KJV is known for its literary prowess; it’s considered a product of the height of the English language. I think the translators wanted to find different ways of saying the same thing, for variety’s sake. I mean, good grief, look how they translated the word in Song of Solomon 2:12:

    “The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

    Are we really so daft (they were English after all) as to think they thought the text was referring to a hard-shelled reptile? especially when the context is already referring to birds? Certainly not.

    No, it’s not a mistranslation; it’s textual variety. That’s the explanation most consistent with the evidence.

  5. Who is Russ “Pappy” Houck? And what is Rob Skiba teaching about the Holy Ghost? What is Skiba’s belief regarding the Trinity?
    See the article: The Gross Errors of Russ Pappy Houck and Rob Skiba on Chris Putnam’s website. Very troubling indeed.
    A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. We need to put aliens, demon seed and nephilim aside for a while and get our BIBLICAL doctrine about the Trinity straight.

  6. Author

    Cris and Russ will be next week’s guests on A View From the Bunker.

  7. So, Derek,
    Will Hamp have to disavow Skiba to avoid being disavowed by Putnam, or will you have to disavow them all to not be disavowed by “Aqua”, or can we just burn the “heretics” and be done with it?
    I appreciate that Sharon can still collaborate with Skiba, and that L.A. Marzulli could work with the likes of Brad Scott, and that we all are still free to respond to the Spirit as It leads.
    Thanks for your courage, and kudos to Doug and Rob.

    1. Author

      Ha! We love them all and wish we could co-exist in peace. The Internet makes it too easy to deploy the flamethrower. I may not agree with everything Rob, Doug, and L.A. believe, but we’re all following the Lord to the best of our limited, flawed understanding. On that basis, our home is open to all of them at any time.

  8. Still, blessings on you and Sharon for showing a loving attitude, not a devisive one. I understand that some of us who are trying to understand and serve our Father and His Son may not always be in agreement, but let’s let Them sort it/us out.

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